Thank you for the fascinating exchange.
You have neither the power nor the right to tell anyone "what they mean".
And then call them a "liar" after YOUR interpretation is rejected!
You are either suffering some form of megalomania or psychosis. It's truly sad how you ignore our fundamental agreement on the negative environmental impacts of homesteads and subdivisions, instead, your preference for aggressive hostility betrays an affliction, some kind of illness that is causing you to share your pain. Best of luck with that.
A person can bring up "Big Timber" and their political influence, (like in countless other rural communities where Big Corporations exercise political dominance), without bringing up the "Timber Wars" which refers to a specific era of protests. Outside of your obsession, these are not the same topic. Although you never asked, my personal conclusions about the "Timber Wars" is that clear cuts are still taking place regardless of any "reforms" they trumpeted. (NOW, you can say that I have brought up the subject of the "Timber Wars", are you happy?).
Please explain how my unscientific observations of bio-diversity collapse in the Mad River watershed are, "unfair reporting of eco-damage", and yet, your unscientific observations of "healthy" watershed conditions in Humboldt County, are "fair"?
Again, my observation conceded that biodiversity would inevitably occur from homestead development...although at a slower pace.
Mr. Moss, why do you keep LYING about your not bringing up the Timber War. I posted your very words before and you still have the ego to think you did not post this?
"Funny, "you guys" (?) have never had any control of local politics, Big Timber handed the baton to Big Developers.
I guess you think you can wiggle out of of saying you didn't say exactly "Timber War" but we all know what you meant by "Big Timber handed the baton to Big Developers". That is Timber War rhetoric, plain and simple. You are dishonest and need to keep trying to wiggle out of ethical responsibility in ACCURATE environmental damage reporting, e.g. your focusing on Korbel's timber cut watersheds and not saying anything about the 1998 South Fork Eel River EPA studies for example that found the majority of stream degradation happening in tributaries draining homestead subdivision developments. Which anyone could have predicted just by using logic: miles and miles of unpaved dirt roads servicing homestead parcels, each one being pounded daily by traffic and each one channeling water runoff into the creeks plugging up deep spawning grounds with silt.
I was just about the only one bringing this problem to the community's attention for years and I got what you are still trying to do for my good deed; endless slander for my efforts and of course, Judy's type of shunning any environmental or community information she can't spin into a weapon against her political opponents and critics like me who she especially goes out of her way to stop any news of my organizing work. You may applaud fellow Prog political gangster Judy but you know, when egotistical editors get it into their heads they can play God with community news, they will be eventually taken down and replaced by people with better ethics.
Lookit, Moss, I've dealt with too many people on forums and blogs who just cannot ever receive criticism and will endlessly try to defend their actions as you are doing. You didn't play fair with your reporting of eco-damage and I called you on it. Own up and move on.
Judy is wise to ignore you.
You are compelled to lie that I brought up "timber wars", and now you are claiming that "we are talking about the 1987 period". No "WE" are not. YOU are, and you have to lie to retain your obsessed political agenda focused on Timber Wars, Julia Butterfly and Luna.
This is an ugly and pointless manipulation.
As I pointed out earlier, we seem to be in agreement on hypocritical rural "environmentalists". Back when HumCPR was rallying their troops, 1,000 mostly rural residents packed CR's auditorium for a Humboldt County Planning Commission meeting and many stood up to claim they practice "low-impact lifestyles", however, NOT ONE testified in favor of codifying low-impact lifestyles.
You claim: "I would stake Humboldt County's watershed's health on any comparison". The fact is that there aren't any! There are no water-capacity studies and the science has been here for decades. There are state regulations regarding wells but in Humboldt County water remains a "Gold Rush" that you can harvest for the price of a pump and hose. This county can barely regulate the irresponsible developments taking place a few miles from their offices.
Forty years ago as a student at HSU I frequented the tributaries between Korbel and Maple Creek. They were teeming with abundant crayfish, amphibians, blue tail skinks, eels, and clams. Otters would zip-by feasting on them at about the same time every afternoon. I've returned periodically to find these streams nearly devoid of life. There are only a few homesteads in this huge region that has been heavily logged. If it hadn't been logged I suspect the bio-diversity might have continued another hundred years before the SAME HABITAT LOSS would have occurred from housing development.
Again, both the timber and development industries are equally bred of irresponsible and publicly subsidized greed with similar impacts on resources and the environment, and both remain insufficiently regulated due to their political dominance.
Hot debate going on this topic, folks, so Judy has to take it down, her own "I'm still worried" editorial off the front page NCJ links now, lest more political damage be done to enviro and Progressive rural legends.
Alan Moss, you can't win this one if you gotta lie to push your failed old Timber War agenda. I'm sorry but I would stake Humboldt County's watershed's health on any comparison between logging in Humboldt County in the period we're talking about, 1987 when Maxxam obtained PL, to the present. You have to drag in all those prior years of almost totally unregulated gypo logging and another State's logging history in order to shore up your politically biased attack on the timber industry.
You really don't get it. The Timber War was a FIASCO, an almost total waste of time and worse, in nearly 20 years of protests and lawsuits, it did not save a single old growth tree on Palco land except the one bought and paid for and severely wounded, Luna. In one year, 1991, EPIC stonewalled Palco's compromise offer to set aside 20,000 acres of prime stream corridor old growth redwoods along all of Palco's blue line fish spawning creeks. 20,000 acres side aside forever and EPIC said no thanks, it's not enough. Thank you, EPIC for losing 20,000 acres of old growth redwoods by playing Timber War games with Maxxam. And Palco now? Oh, it's the Fisher Family's private bank now, where they don't have to cut much, just let their bank account grow while they make their billions off the backs of 3rd World garment sweatshops that sometimes burn them to death. In Cambodia, the gov't shoots garment sweat shop protesters while GAP Fishers team up with Walmart to derail garment worker protection laws.
And meanwhile, back in the subdivision hills, how many endangered species lost their lives due to unregulated homestead development? We will never know. No one was keeping track and still aren't partly because too many passe enviros and Progs are still stuck in the past's era of bad idea environmental protection, the era of going for the public attention, the headlines and posing as some kind of timber warrior heroes when all along these fame junkies were only diverting our attention away from homesteaders, from whom they took money and still do in total hypocrisy to environmental protection.
I don't want to see this stupidity in environmental protection ever again, thank you very much, which is why I am slamming your bad environmental ideas that obviously show political prejudice.
Odd "logic" Stephen.
Big Timber did, in fact, dominate local politics and I never mentioned the "Timber Wars".
Thus, your points remain blatantly disingenuous, vague and unsubstantiated. I suspect the NCJ editor is more familiar with your sophistry than I am.
To my knowledge there's not a single researcher that has compared the impacts on biodiversity from 150 years of unbridled logging and spraying in old growth forests with the troubling loss of habitat from unbridled development.
It was interesting to see that big timber is still getting away with massive clear cuts surrounding the leveled developments and large number of victims in Washington's recent landslides.
Both are equally bred of irresponsible and publicly subsidized greed.
"Get a clue"? "Beat a dead horse"? So far you are the only one bringing up the Timber Wars,.."
Nice try, moss, but no cigar. Here's you bringing up the Timber War:
"Funny, "you guys" (?) have never had any control of local politics, Big Timber handed the baton to Big Developers.
And you're quite wrong about the damage timber companies did in the same time frame as homesteader development. Do the math: Maxxam at their height of operation fielded 220 men cutting trees and all the accompanying trucking and cat work per day in a relatively tiny portion of PL's 225,000 acres. Compare that with subdivision activity on subdivision lands and roads going on 24/7/365 days a year with far more than 220 people on far more than the sections being logged piecemeal across a large acreage. Your prejudices are showing is all, the same ones that made enviros and now Proggies make bad environmental decisions so that you guys can't be trusted to know what your doing when ganging together as little public mobs at Humboldt County future planning meetings.
"Get a clue"? "Beat a dead horse"? So far you are the only one bringing up the Timber Wars, we appear to be in agreement on unbridled development, which, in my opinion, is a direct result of an uninformed public forfeiting their right to vote-out development interests that force them to subsidize the infrastructure serving McMansion subdivisions while ignoring affordable housing needs for a generation.
Big timber did a lot of damage in a short amount of time. Irresponsible development will do the same thing, it will just take a little longer.
Sell it to yourself anyway you want but I'm not buying your leftover Leftist attempt to once again, divert attention away from the failed Timber War fiasco that left Humboldt County watersheds with homestead subdivision developments continue for 20 years, still going on, of un-ecologically regulated land use, road construction that killed who knows how many endangered species. Dogs killing deer, cats killing every little animal, people killing porcupines, bears, racoons, and MUD pouring off hundreds of miles of dirt roads being pulverized every day so the rains can carry the mud and silt down into the watershed creeks ruining salmonide spawning grounds. And then there's all the pot poisoning horrors..
Get a clue, Alan, the days when you could pound the Timber War dead horse are over. It was only greedy people hungry for public fame and political power seeking headlines and even money by exploiting environmental concern.
Instead of vague gibberish, satire, and innuendo how about a more specific example of, "typical HYPE without reality, run your ecological awareness"?
Last time I checked, there hasn't been one positive, successful social movement in history that wasn't born of "bad relationships".
Oh please, Alan, do get my point and enough with that very same crapola we had to endure for decades with E.F!, EPIC, Julia Buttinski exploiting the whole deal, and countless protests and bad relationships created between loggers and counterculture people? You missed those collateral damages caused by enviro stupidity and greed for fame and yes, fortune, (Darryl making his million on blaming the FBI for what some who knew them now think was domestic relationships gone sour with an ex who knew how to make bombs--money to be made exploiting the Timber War conflict that was artificially produced in the first place--the real baddies, homesteaders, especially all the pot growing ones, in unregulated homestead subdivision developments.
And here you are trying again to beat the old Timber War dead horse of hypocrites in action, diverting everyone's attention away from eco-protection and to the Corporate Monsters. And all our creeks coming out of homestead subdivisions pay the price as do all the animals they support.
"You guys cannot be trusted to know what you're doing because you let political correctness, in this case, typical HYPE without reality, run your ecological awareness."
Funny, "you guys" (?) have never had any control of local politics, Big Timber handed the baton to Big Developers.
Scare tactics, mr moss? Oooohhh, the horrible boogeyman of property owners out of control deliberately bringing in mega-pot grows and meth labs while the reality is this: Property owners when organized as for example the Buckeye conservation group were setting the high bar of land stewardship while the very same people now screaming to stop unregulated rural land use development were screaming for the heads of Maxxam while they sucked off the tit of unregulated homestead subdivision development letting homesteaders and dope growers go scott free of criticism for almost 20 years. You guys cannot be trusted to know what you're doing because you let political correctness, in this case, typical HYPE without reality, run your ecological awareness.
“It’s hard for me to talk about the media without getting angry. Because if the United States or the world goes down in disaster, I would blame the media first of all because the people running it are intelligent people, they know very well how evil they are. And when they say, ‘Oh, I’m just giving the people what they want.’ Sure, so do the drug pushers.” (The late Pete Seeger).
The NCJ is the only local print media willing to allude to the corruption dominating local politics, an outrage not unlike Appalachia where King Coal calls the shots.
How hard is it to report issues within their big picture context?
It's not Big Brother that's going to terrorize rural people off their land, it's those idiots 5 miles down your dirt road that you see with holsters and shotguns attached to their ATV's emboldened by HumCPR's vigilance against regulations which inevitably leads to resource depletion. In the case of water, it will lead to violence and property damage first.
Bohn showed who he represents when he canned the ONLY Planning Commissioner in local history (Denver Nelson) that, for 2 decades, called for water carrying capacity studies prior to approval for all new rural developments.
Having development interests in charge in rural Southern California, worked out fine, Right?
Judy??? How about the courtesy of a response to my suggestion you do a NCJ article about our Heartlands Lifeline Inter-Tribal Lottery Project that my Bear River tribal partner Don Brenard and I have been organizing, the Project we talk with 2nd District Supervisor Estelle Fennell about frequently and that Humboldt Harbor Commissioner Richard Marks knows of and that KMUD will be doing another Heartlands Show about, while you, you play politics with community news. It's a chance to redeem yourself if you can rise above petty politics and not do another hit piece but report a really good economic development project that will benefit a tremendous number of people and save human lives in the bargain. Please be honorable to the community and finally give us some recognition for 19 years of effort that we've put into this Project.
Judy, did you post as the Humboldt Hun there?
Really, you just need to report community projects, even ones your political slant can't deny are for the great benefit of our community.
I had a real sinking feeling when I read the HumCPR insert. The article on page 6, "Your "path" is Still Included: Some Clarity on Trails" exposes their true concerns: that the goal is unfunded; and that it has the potential to harm property owners." The text charges Mark Lovelace with a "county wide media blitz" designed to "incite his base." I don't know Mark, and I'm not sure what his "base" is. I read the Times-Standard, the NCJ, I listen to local radio, watch local TV news, and if there was a media blitz, it did not get published in any of those venues. Where's the blitz?
Further, I found the article arrogant and condescending. Oh, don't worry, you still have your little "path." Having a goal of a county-wide trail system is very different from encouraging parks and trails and recreation. This is like telling your teenage son, "I encourage you to keep your room clean and orderly at all times" vs. "I am setting a goal for you to keep you room clean and orderly at all times. Here are the criteria and the steps toward that goal. Here are the rewards for completion. Here's what will happen if you don't' meet that goal."
Two points were raised in support of the language change that removed the goal.
The first reason, HumCPR claims to be aware of "several counties ... claiming eminent domain to build trails on private lands ... based on open space elements." Playing on fear, throwing out threats, invoking the "big bad government" which will take over your land and ruin your life. Who's inciting a base? A quick Google search shows one or two cases, maybe, both of which seemed way more complicated than the simple "government takeover" scenario implied by HumCPR. I also found many ads for lawyers, so it seems eminent domain is not something to take lightly, by either side. And I seem to recall a couple of local cases, both involving, not trails, but the highway.
The second reason, the goal is unfunded. Well duh. You don't fund a goal before you set it. You set goals first, then you plan the steps to implement. You break down your big goal into many little sub-goals, and you farm those out to various stakeholders and interest groups, or staff, or what! hey! LOCAL BUSINESSES THAT CREATE LOCAL JOBS!!
Sorry for the caps, I could not help myself. But, talk about shoot yourself in the foot. Destroy something that has the potential to improve the county, improve the quality of life for people, create jobs, encourage travelers and would-be residents, even relocating small businesses. Create community, get local participation, improve health, and many other benefits. For what? What could possible be gained that would be worth throwing all that away?
Stephen Lewis out of Humboldt County
I'm sure Judy has much more political attack plans for HumCPR so not to worry Expose. That's what Humboldt entertainment news offers Judy and her little Gang of pols, a chance to piggy-back on Humboldt people's interest in arts and entertainment in order to promote the Proggie anti-working class pro-Yuppie elitist political agenda that thrives on creating needless social wars pitting one side of the community against the other. Sells copies as Yellow Journalism found out a couple of centuries ago. Paint one side all black, the other all white, and promote the social war that divides instead of unites our community. But it does sell magazines...
Judy, you're silent again about my proposal for you to redeem yourself in the eyes of the objective god of good community news reporting.
Someone at the Journal could make a prime story dissecting the new HumCPR newsletter. It states there's an evil campaign looking to wipe out rural living. What they fail to mention is that HumCPR is doing all the campaigning and it's for the sake of building new infrastructure on otherwise forested land. People can live on TPZ's, just not build subdivisions of McMansions on them. And rightfully so. The wording of the GPU sets the language for future exploitation of undeveloped land. The especially scary irony is that HumCPR's newsletter is about the importance of water, tugging at so many heartstrings. This is the same HumCPR that struck wording mandating greater buffers around water sources. The same HumCPR that wants to allow thousands of new wells to be drilled in the forest. It's disgusting.
In Print This Week:
Apr 10, 2014
vol XXV issue 15
The North Coast Journal Weekly
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